Tim McVeigh Conspiracy Theory Continues
McVeigh had high-level help
Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols says a high-ranking FBI official "apparently" was directing Timothy McVeigh in the plot to blow up a government building and might have changed the original target of the attack, according to a new affidavit filed in U.S. District Court in Utah.
The official and other conspirators are being protected by the federal government "in a cover-up to escape its responsibility for the loss of life in Oklahoma," Nichols claims in a Feb. 9 affidavit.
Documents that supposedly help back up his allegations have been sealed to protect information in them, such as Social Security numbers and dates of birth.
The U.S. Attorney's Office in Utah had no comment on the allegations. The FBI and Justice Department in Washington, D.C., also declined comment.
Nichols does not say what motive the government would have to be involved in the bombing.
The affidavit was filed in a lawsuit brought by Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue, who believes his brother's death in a federal prison was linked to the Oklahoma City bombing. The suit, which seeks documents from the FBI under the federal Freedom of Information Act, alleges that authorities mistook Kenneth Trentadue for a bombing conspirator and that guards killed him in an interrogation that got out of hand.
Trentadue's death a few months after the April 19, 1995, bombing
was ruled a suicide after several investigations. The government has adamantly denied any wrongdoing in the death.
In his affidavit, Nichols says he wants to bring closure to the survivors and families of the attack on the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, which took 168 lives. He alleges he wrote then-Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004, offering to help identify all parties who played a role in the bombing but never got a reply.
Nichols is serving a life sentence at the U.S. Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colo. McVeigh, who carried out the bombing, was executed in 2001.
McVeigh and Nichols were the only defendants indicted in the bombing. However, Nichols alleges others were involved.
McVeigh told him he was recruited for undercover missions while serving in the military, according to Nichols. He says he learned sometime in 1995 that there had been a change in the bombing target and that McVeigh was upset by that.
"There, in what I believe was an accidental slip of the tongue, McVeigh revealed the identity of a high-ranking FBI official who was apparently directing McVeigh in the bomb plot," Nichols says in the affidavit.
Nichols also says that McVeigh threatened him and his family to force him to rob Roger Moore, an Arkansas gun dealer, of weapons and explosives. He later learned the robbery was staged so Moore, who was in on the phony heist, could deny any knowledge of the bombing plot if the stolen items were traced back to him, Nichols claims.
He adds that Moore allegedly told his attorney that he would not be prosecuted in connection with the bombing because he was a "protected witness."
Moore could not be reached for comment Tuesday.
In addition, Nichols says McVeigh must have had help building the bomb. The device he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that ultimately was used, Nichols says, and "displayed a level of expertise and sophistication" that neither man had.
Story Here
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Why?? Why documents produced or supposedly produced years later are suppose to be believeable? How would Nichols know if the bomb he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that was used unless Nichols had seen this bomb before it was detonated? And if the FBI or whoever McVeigh claims to have been "Employed" or "Ordered By" picked the wrong target? PLEASE!!! Why pick a target in Oklahoma City? Texas FBI was more culpable than OKC! I am NO fan of Bill Clinton's but this is even beyond his scope! This conspiracy theory madness is absolute nonsense. I know Bill Clinton's crowning acheivement as President was the attack on Waco, Texas, and Janet Reno can be orgasmic about this all day long, but I feel in NO WAY that Clinton had any knowledge about the attack on OKC in advance. I know damn well Clinton screwed up big time on Usama Bin Laden, but I am NOT falling for the attack on OKC as being Clinton's fault. This is just another example of how far conspiracy theorists will go.
Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols says a high-ranking FBI official "apparently" was directing Timothy McVeigh in the plot to blow up a government building and might have changed the original target of the attack, according to a new affidavit filed in U.S. District Court in Utah.
The official and other conspirators are being protected by the federal government "in a cover-up to escape its responsibility for the loss of life in Oklahoma," Nichols claims in a Feb. 9 affidavit.
Documents that supposedly help back up his allegations have been sealed to protect information in them, such as Social Security numbers and dates of birth.
The U.S. Attorney's Office in Utah had no comment on the allegations. The FBI and Justice Department in Washington, D.C., also declined comment.
Nichols does not say what motive the government would have to be involved in the bombing.
The affidavit was filed in a lawsuit brought by Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue, who believes his brother's death in a federal prison was linked to the Oklahoma City bombing. The suit, which seeks documents from the FBI under the federal Freedom of Information Act, alleges that authorities mistook Kenneth Trentadue for a bombing conspirator and that guards killed him in an interrogation that got out of hand.
Trentadue's death a few months after the April 19, 1995, bombing
was ruled a suicide after several investigations. The government has adamantly denied any wrongdoing in the death.
In his affidavit, Nichols says he wants to bring closure to the survivors and families of the attack on the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, which took 168 lives. He alleges he wrote then-Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004, offering to help identify all parties who played a role in the bombing but never got a reply.
Nichols is serving a life sentence at the U.S. Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colo. McVeigh, who carried out the bombing, was executed in 2001.
McVeigh and Nichols were the only defendants indicted in the bombing. However, Nichols alleges others were involved.
McVeigh told him he was recruited for undercover missions while serving in the military, according to Nichols. He says he learned sometime in 1995 that there had been a change in the bombing target and that McVeigh was upset by that.
"There, in what I believe was an accidental slip of the tongue, McVeigh revealed the identity of a high-ranking FBI official who was apparently directing McVeigh in the bomb plot," Nichols says in the affidavit.
Nichols also says that McVeigh threatened him and his family to force him to rob Roger Moore, an Arkansas gun dealer, of weapons and explosives. He later learned the robbery was staged so Moore, who was in on the phony heist, could deny any knowledge of the bombing plot if the stolen items were traced back to him, Nichols claims.
He adds that Moore allegedly told his attorney that he would not be prosecuted in connection with the bombing because he was a "protected witness."
Moore could not be reached for comment Tuesday.
In addition, Nichols says McVeigh must have had help building the bomb. The device he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that ultimately was used, Nichols says, and "displayed a level of expertise and sophistication" that neither man had.
Story Here
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why?? Why documents produced or supposedly produced years later are suppose to be believeable? How would Nichols know if the bomb he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that was used unless Nichols had seen this bomb before it was detonated? And if the FBI or whoever McVeigh claims to have been "Employed" or "Ordered By" picked the wrong target? PLEASE!!! Why pick a target in Oklahoma City? Texas FBI was more culpable than OKC! I am NO fan of Bill Clinton's but this is even beyond his scope! This conspiracy theory madness is absolute nonsense. I know Bill Clinton's crowning acheivement as President was the attack on Waco, Texas, and Janet Reno can be orgasmic about this all day long, but I feel in NO WAY that Clinton had any knowledge about the attack on OKC in advance. I know damn well Clinton screwed up big time on Usama Bin Laden, but I am NOT falling for the attack on OKC as being Clinton's fault. This is just another example of how far conspiracy theorists will go.
posted by Marie's Two Cents | 10:01 PM
25 Comments:
It doesn't take "theorists" to put 2 and 2 together. And if the official story was complete and everyone received their due justice why haven't they released any of the 12 camera footages that caught this whole thing as it happened? I don't know the answers but I damn sure KNOW that they are lying and covering up the truth.
Read this letter from Air Force General Benton K. Partin to Senator Trent Lott:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/PARTIN/ok8.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXMo3Z0qms&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Einfowars%2Ecom%2Farticles%2Fus%2Fokc%5Fbombing%5Fnew%5Frevelations%5Fspotlight%5Ffbi%5Finvolvement%2Ehtm
And if that isn't interesting enough investigate Operation Northwoods:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662
Well Anonymous I have a certain advantage in all this more than alot of people being as I lived through the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Doesnt it seem far fetched to you that of all places the Government would pick the Alphred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City to blow up? I mean considering the main characters in the Waco disaster were in Texas?
Tim McVeigh took it out on us because some of our FBI went and helped out in the whole Waco mess.
It also seems far fetched to me that these documents surface NOW, instead of when McVeigh was still alive, after all he wasnt a good soldier, he had issues with our government, and why would he do thier dirty work for them? He hated the Government!
And what would the government have to gain by blowing up the Federal building in Oklahoma City of all places?
It just doesnt make any sense. And I know there are alot of people that will swear there were 12 cameras all around that area at the time, and there may have been, but cameras werent as abundant and put up all over the place at the time like they are today especially in Oklahoma City. There was one camera that shows the Ryder truck outside of the Murrah building just before it blew up and that's the one I saw.
I know the media has painted a heck of a conspiracy picture and alot of websites have too, but it just doesnt add up with the events that took place that day. To me and alot of other survivers.
I have seen all those links and trust me I live this daily on my local news.
I am no fan of Bill Clinton, but I just dont believe that he could have even had a hand in this. I mean if you think about it, what was there to gain? This all happened in 1995, 2 years into Clinton's Presidency, and long before Monica, and the Whitewater scandal. There really wasnt much going on with Clinton at the time.
But for arguments sake let's say you are right and the conspiracy theory people are right, why would the government have a hand in blowing up the Federal Building in OKC when it would make Janet Reno look more like a bungling fool than she already was? I mean McVeigh even said himself he was getting even for what the Government did to David Koresh in Waco, which was Clinon and Reno's moronic mess!!
Everyone knows the FBI, the CIA, hell anyone in Washington D.C. cant keep a secret, stuff is leaked to the media all the time.
This makes about as much sense as Bush blowing up the twin towers himself, a missle hit the Pentagon instead of flight 77, (And speaking of flight 77, what happened to all the people onboard that flight if it didnt crash into the Pentagon?), and Bush bringing down flight 93, oh and Bush blowing up the levees in New Orleans!!
Sometimes when devistating things happen in our Country and all the questions may never be answered, I know people need to justify what has happened in thier minds especially when they dont have all the answers. That is why it is more important to believe eye witnesses, people that actually experienced the experience, and what you have visually seen for yourself.
Jumping to all these Conspiracy theory conclusions is just nutty, especially when no one in the Government can ever keep a secret!!
Y'know, a double layer of Reynolds Wrap® Release® Non-Stick Foil on the inside of your ball cap will keep out all of those pesky government mind-control rays.
Don't use the Reynolds Extra Heavy Aluminum Foil Rolls, cuz they tend to heat up at the low frequencies.
Happy motoring, and Aloha Snackbar!
Uncle P,
Y'know, a double layer of Reynolds Wrap® Release® Non-Stick Foil on the inside of your ball cap will keep out all of those pesky government mind-control rays.
Don't use the Reynolds Extra Heavy Aluminum Foil Rolls, cuz they tend to heat up at the low frequencies.
Happy motoring, and Aloha Snackbar!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LOL!!! You forgot Microwaves And Alarm Clocks!
Microwaves can not only make a man impotent or sterile but they also have Micro Wave Rays that can provoke thought control!
And Alarm Clocks everyone knows about Alarm clocks, those put subliminal messages in your head when you wake up, you are just not the same for the rest of the day.
But the heavy duty Aluminum foil does work best :-)
Three things that have always bothered me about this case:
1 - What happened to John Doe #2?
2 - Why would a man like Tim McVeigh, who just committed mass murder, let himself get pulled over by a State Trooper without giving him a fight?
3 - McVeigh's execution was extremely private, his body was released to his lawyer (not a family member) and immediately cremated.
I don't believe Clinton had any hand in this case, moreso because I don't believe he and his administration had the brains to think it up, but those three things have always bothered me.
Just my $0.02.
Trek,
1 - What happened to John Doe #2?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Number One:
Some say John Doe number two was with McVeigh that day he rented the truck, others said he was in the same rent-a-truck place as McVeigh when he rented the truck. There has been NO evidence they were ever together! Confusing yes, out of the question NO! No one saw them leave together.
Number Two:
2 - Why would a man like Tim McVeigh, who just committed mass murder, let himself get pulled over by a State Trooper without giving him a fight?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He never "Let" himself get pulled over. He was unaware he had no license plate on the back of his Mercury. He was trying to avoid the State troopers and get away from them by trying to be calm, cool and collected. He had no idea that in this state if you dont have a license plate on your vehicle they will haul you in to find out if it is stolen. And he had no idea he had lost the License Plate to the Mercury he was driving and trust me in Oklahoma if you have no License plate they will pull you out of your car, check your name and registation and Insurance information and tow the car if they can find nothing. And if you have 2 missing at least out of 3 in this state you are going to jail! McVeigh either lost his license plate on the way to Perry, OK, or thought he could avoid the police without a license plate traveling through Oklahoma, BIG MISTAKE ON HIS PART!!
Number 3:
Actually it was not private, the 168 victims in Oklahoma City that either survived the initial blast or lost loves ones in the explosion got to watch all this live on closed circuit tv. Or attened the execution in Trerre Haute, Indiana
His body was released to his lawyer and then to his family the same day. His family had his remains creamated at thier request and scattered them in an undisclosed location.
No conspiracy there either.
He was NEVER Imediately creamated, it was a 1 or 2 day process by the family.
You should be not bothered by this anymore I live it on the nigtly news!
Trust me on this, there was NO conspiracy!
We have lived though this nightmare
for 12 years. There is nothing conspiracyatorical here!
"especially when no one in the Government can ever keep a secret!!"
- The Manhattan Project was kept secret for many years and there were thousands of people involved in it.
"if you think about it, what was there to gain?"
- Clinton's numbers skyrocketed, Congress finally passed the Omnibus Anti-Terrorism Bill which was stalled previously, BATF got it's name back after the Ruby Ridge/Waco ordeals, Increases in funding.
"That is why it is more important to believe eye witnesses, people that actually experienced the experience"
- It's the eyewitnesses that saw Bomb Squad's defusing 2 other explosives. In the clip above the News is reporting multiple devices in the building.
And what's your opinion on Air Force General Benton Parin's analysis? He designed warheads and munitions for the military. Is he making his analysis up? Why would he write a letter and send it to Congress saying that there is a cover up?
What about the multiple testimonies in the documentary made by Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key?
Operation Northwoods was kept secret for 40 years. A plan that was green lighted all the way up until it got to Prez Kennedy. It called for hijacking planes and crashing them to blame it on Cubans. Even dressing up some soldiers as Cubans and firing on other American soldiers. And alot more - to justify a war with Cuba. This isn't debatable. It's in the National Archives on George Washington University's website.
The news reported a few months ago about the surfacing of a memo b/w Bush and Blair in which Bush proposes the idea of painting a U.S. plane in UN colors and flying over Baghdad in hopes of getting Saddam to fire on it, thus creating a reason to kick start the war. It's admitted in reported in mainstream news.
2 years ago the NSA released the LBJ tapes proving that the Gulf Of Tonkin was staged to get us in Vietnam. Congressman Ron Paul (a REAL Conservative, unlike Bush) said on the House floor 2 weeks ago that he's afraid of "another Gulf of Tonkin incident" to get us into a war with Iran.
We, just last week, had former National Security Advisor speaking to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee "by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the US BLAMED on Iran, culminating in a ‘defensive’ US military action against Iran"
Are these very distinguished and respected men "conspiracy theorists"? Of course not. They just know history.
As Americans we are told repeatedly by the letters and teachings of our Founding Fathers to always be suspicious of government. That's why they set up our country the way they did. So, it's not "tin foil" to ask hard questions and demand answers. It's American!
Since you're in Oklahoma you need to hear the interview that the Lawyer gave yesterday morning about all of this.
http://prisonplanet.com/audio/220207trentadue.mp3
And this story about 2 months ago. You seen this?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/181206mcveighvideo.htm
"We, just last week, had former National Security Advisor speaking to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee "by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the US BLAMED on Iran, culminating in a ‘defensive’ US military action against Iran""
- That was Zbigniew Brzezinski, by the way.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=GRE20070204&articleId=4670
Anon,
The Manhattan Project was kept secret for many years and there were thousands of people involved in it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well you got me on the Manhattan Project, but someone eventually squealed and it's no longer a secret. And it's been 12 years since Oklahoma, you would think with the hounding and the digging the news media does and the fact they would LOVE to lay this in Clinton's lap especially with his wife running for President they would have found a snitch by now! After 12 years?
Clinton's numbers skyrocketed, Congress finally passed the Omnibus Anti-Terrorism Bill which was stalled previously, BATF got it's name back after the Ruby Ridge/Waco ordeals, Increases in funding.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah all that is true, and I am in NO way sticking up for Clinton, and there is a long list of bodies that lay in the wake of anyone who dared challenge he or Hillary, but I just dont think he had enough sense to put such a big operation like this together. And Oklahoma would not have gone along with this kind of crap! everyone seems to think we in Oklahoma are a bunch of hicks, but when it comes to this stuff they wouldnt have lied even for the President.
It's the eyewitnesses that saw Bomb Squad's defusing 2 other explosives. In the clip above the News is reporting multiple devices in the building.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Those eyewitnesses had just survived the explosion, they could have seen almost anything and believed what they were told at that point. We were all cordoned off from the imediate area because they were still recovering bodies and searching for survivers, but we could clearly see everything going on in front before they started covering things up with yellow tarp, "bodies" and I never saw the FBI and no one I know ever them defusing anything, all we ever saw them doing was picking up truck parts. And marking x's and other codes on the ground. However I will give you this much what was going farther than I could see I cant comment on because I didnt see it! But it was all over the news from a few seconds after it happened on our local news, and then it was National for weeks. They had Helicopters in the air hovering over the sight, speed zoom lenses, cameras, it would have been almost impossible for anyone not to have seen exactly what was going on because all there was left was part of a building and a bunch of rubble. We probably saw more closer photos than you all being as we were local.
And what's your opinion on Air Force General Benton Parin's analysis? He designed warheads and munitions for the military. Is he making his analysis up? Why would he write a letter and send it to Congress saying that there is a cover up?
What about the multiple testimonies in the documentary made by Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They werent there! I believe they want to believe there is more to this whole thing but there just isnt!
Operation Northwoods was kept secret for 40 years. A plan that was green lighted all the way up until it got to Prez Kennedy. It called for hijacking planes and crashing them to blame it on Cubans. Even dressing up some soldiers as Cubans and firing on other American soldiers. And alot more - to justify a war with Cuba. This isn't debatable. It's in the National Archives on George Washington University's website.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah, but back then everything was a secret! The government did keep secrets back then without constant scrutiny, but we are talking about today!! They cant even keep it a secret when President Bush chokes on a Pretzel!!
All the rest of what you are saying is way to long for me to comment on and some of it I dont have any clue about. I am talking about the Oklahoma City bombing which I do know about!
We were only joking about the Tin Foil! But you gotta admit all these Conspiracy theories are so extreme it makes one wonder if they do require a tin foil hat lol.
I do agree it is American to question the government, but sometimes there are people that put out memos, and documents and papers, with the sole intention of making everyone question every little thing the govenment does!
We could drive ourselves to the nuthouse if we believe this stuff that is sometimes so obvious that it isnt a Conspiracy as plain as the nose on your face!
You seem to be very well educated on all this stuff and I dont mind debating with you, I wish you would pick a name like Bob or something though lol.
Anon/Bob lol
Since you're in Oklahoma you need to hear the interview that the Lawyer gave yesterday morning about all of this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I will check it out, I am not just anywhere in Oklahoma I am in Oklahoma City. 13 Blocks from where the Murrah building blew up, and at the time I worked 2 blocks away from it, that's how I know what went on right from the start, not just me, everyone in the imediate vicinity ran to the site before they were able to rope off everything, we still had to keep our distance because none of us knew for sure at first what was really going on, we all thought it was a gas explosion at first! After the Police and Fire and the entire state started showing up, the helocopters, the news, then we were all cordoned off, and told to leave, but we were all in shock and none of us left. I left for a few minutes and went to get some water and the hotel resteraunt that I went to had the news on and they had better pictures than we were seeing in person.
I'm just saying it all happened so fast and so many people were on the scene before the police, and the news, and everybody, it was just impossible for the entire event to have happened any other way than it did.
The Blast! The blast could pretty much tell the whole story, but you would have had to have felt it. It wasnt like any normal explosion, it was a HUGE bang accompanied by a whoosh I dont know any other way to describe this. I dont know if you have ever experienced an Oklahoma Thunder and Lightning storm, but when the Thunder is right on top of you it shakes your whole house and sounds like an explosion. But this blast was like that with the acompanying whooosh, after knowing what I know now, I was on on the North side of the building where the major impact was, and where the blast was mostly felt, did you know that blast was felt as far away as Kansas?
And I can swear there was only ONE blast! I have heard the rumors and the rediculous crazy arguments that there were multiple blasts, but there was only ONE! I felt it, I lived it, and I will NEVER forget it. ONE devistaing blast that took the lives of 168 Innocent people.
"We, just last week, had former National Security Advisor speaking to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee "by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the US BLAMED on Iran, culminating in a ‘defensive’ US military action against Iran
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let me guess, you think we are going to run over and invade Iran right?
Let's look at this picture, Iran is arming the insurgents "Al-Queda", we know this for sure. Iran has threatened to wipe Israel off the map, and the United States also. You have a raving Lunatic President in Iran, but he isnt really running anything but his mouth! The Mullah's and Imams control Iran. They just stick nutjob out there to keep everyone paying more attention to him than what is really going on in Iran. What is really going on is they are enriching uranium and are making a Nuclear bomb, probably more than one. They defy the United Nations (Who in my opinion are worhtless anyway), they defy the world, they play all kinds of games and soon it's all going to catch up with them. Isreal is directly threatened by these loones and If we dont take out Iran's launchpads, I gaurantee you Israel will! Probably causing WWIII, If Israel does it.
It wouldnt take alot to just take out thier launchpads and put them years farther back at what they are trying to accomplish!
You have to understand this whole damn war on terror started with Iran and it will end with Iran. Oh sure Bin Laden was an offshoot of this whole thing, hell there are many many offshoots, and they were there before President Bush ever was elected so before we get into "There are more now because of Iraq and blah blah blah", they were already all around just asleep!
It started when Iran took our US Embassy employees hostage for 444 days! Then you have Hezbollah controlled by Iran, Syria is Iran's puppet, Iran is responsible for more crap than I can remember.
It's not to hard to figure out what needs to be done, and it doesnt have to be done with one Troop setting foot in Iran!
The only way to control those people out there the middle east is with force, that's all they know, and that's actually all they respect!
I'm pretty sure we know how far along Nutjob is with his "Bomb", and I think President Bush thinks the same way I do, Nutjob just talks alot of crap and makes alot of threats. And Bush is still using diplomacy with the Moron, but it seems to shut him up for a few days lol.
If there is going to be an attack on Iran I dont believe it will be while Bush is still President. But whoever is the next President wont be able to afford to wait to long to deal with Iran!
I could go on and on but we were talking about the OKC bombing.
I will check out your links, but I have probably seen all this already, and when I see this stuff I just shake my head because none of these people were there!
But I will look anyway :-)
Atta girl Marie, I’m damn sick and tired of all the conspiracy theories. These people like anonymous use half truths and speculation as part of their theories to what went on. Yes, there are some unanswered questions about John Doe #2 there are some questions about the FBI’s investigation of Timothy McVeigh before the attack on the Federal building. I've had it up to here with all the stories. Some things will never be resolved.
Yea, maybe the Clinton admin had something to do with it but you'll never prove it and you will chase your tail for the rest of your life trying to prove it. If you have iron clad evidence then come forward with it and show everyone the proof. The “he said she said” bull has got to stop. Show the evidence! Ron Paul you mean the same Ron Paul of the "surrender 17".
Look anonymous I used to belong to an organization back in the 80's and early 90's that did what you're doing now. They made up elements and inserted them into a preexisting story that just weren't there in order to make people suspicious and the cloud the issues. JBS.Go to their website and see conspiracy on every page.
I feel like a total dumb ass for ever falling for all that conspiracy crap. Tim McVeigh fell for all that crap and look where it got him and his pals. Ever wake up in the middle of the night wondering if that helicopter going over is going to stop and let out some government agents to haul you away and you disappear forever? That’s what you conspiracy guys live for I know it because I was fooled by all that shit (pardon me Marie). Sure there are some things the government did that needed to be exposed like Ruby Ridge, Waco etc… but to draw attention to those things did Tim McVeigh have to kill all those innocent people?
In 1996 Clinton signed into law the bill as it was commonly known as the Crime bill but the real name of the act was The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act. That act banned so-called assault weapons and increased the power of the ATF to break down your door in the middle of the night and totally f--- up your house and leave everything in a shambles just because your neighbor reported you had an automatic sear for your AR-15 as if your neighbor would even know what a sear was. Those are facts, that isn’t made up or inserted to change the story. Later, during the first term for Bush he signed into law that the BATF must compensate someone if their house is torn apart and the accusations were proven wrong or false. They are the facts. So when you conspiracy guys can present the facts then maybe people will listen to you.
The Manhattan Project was kept secret for many years and there were thousands of people involved in it.
Yea, It was kept secret alright until the head scientist sold the plans to the Soviet Union so they would have one too and we found out after they exploded their first device. Good job keeping secrets eh?
JG, can you address Air Force General Partin's claims?
Can you tell us why the news and even the Department of Justice reported that there were 2 more devices in the building?
Thank You Jenn!!
For the love of Pete I wish these people wouldnt drive themslves batty over all this stuff.
There are just some things we are never going to know, but blowing up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, I shake my head when I hear anyone talk about a coverup of that experience!
It just was what it was, a lunatic, pissed off at the world white boy with a truck full of explosives that blew up 168 people!
Nothing more and nothing less.
Anon,
JG, can you address Air Force General Partin's claims?
Can you tell us why the news and even the Department of Justice reported that there were 2 more devices in the building?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
General Partin wasnt there!! That's all he has are claims!!
But if you insist on this back and forth with Jenn lol be my guest!!
As far as the explosion vs damage done was concerned, one explosive device vs another, even a remotely similar one to the original one would have had exactly the same effect. It is hard to figure where anyone has room to say, based on the detonation and effect, that a different bomb was employed.
The blast of a high velocity explosive (in this case, around 5,000 feet per second) against a granite wall is nearly exactly the same as against a glass wall -- think of almost no obstacle to speak of, like nothing in the way but air.
The rest of the damage was inevitable, because in order to give a spacious impression to the ground floor/ lobby (ie few or no pillars to obstruct the open space), the building had been constructed with a transfer girder system: That is, rather than a ground-based structural support system, it was supported by a horizontal girder system on top of the ground floor. When the explosion took out the ground floor, there was nothing there to support the rest of the building, so it simply fell in on itself. Had they built for integrity rather than aesthetics, it is probable, barring an inescapable fire, that many fewer people would have died and that the upper floors would have remained in place. A lesson was learned -- they are no longer employing transfer girder systems in the construction of federal buildings.
As for the rest, it sounds like a lot of conspiracy mallarkey -- the kind of thing the media eats up just to keep the copy flowing -- hell, look how long they flogged the Condit-Levy kerfuffle before something else came along to focus their attention on!
Umm, actually, Marie, I wasn't kidding about the tinfoil. Reynolds Extra Heavy Aluminum Foil Rolls really do heat up at the low frequencies, which at least gives you something (in this case, fried brains) that the guys at the emergency room can deal with. Now, if you're going to wallpaper your apartment with the stuff, that's a different question.
Incidentally, John Kerry, who spent 104 days in Vietnam, still has the hat! Coincidence? I think not.
No, Partin wasn't there when it happened but he went there afterwards.
Also, no one wants to address why the Department of Justice reported 3 devices total.
What is the explanation that the government gives for the two or three other EDs. Was there a follow up by the local televison stations that first reported it. Does the BATF have any record of dismantling any such devices on the premises? Is ther footage of them hauling said devices away. All this can be found by using the Freedodom of Information act and I'm sure the local TV stations would be more than willing to let you use any of their footage if you told them this was actually a conspiracy by the Bush family to discredit Clinton.
The footage in the link I posted up top shows a bombsquad truck.
Reporter states:
"We have now confirmed with Federal Authorities that a 2nd bomb has been found inside that federal building"
"A 2nd bomb was found in the East side. The Bomb Squad is on the scene. We don't know yet if they've managed to defuse it but it has been CONFIRMED that a 2nd bomb was found on the East side."
"We've been told by the Police Department that just as soon as those bombs are defused they will permit the medical team to enter."
"We want to update our audience that the Justice Department is reporting that a 2nd device HAS BEEN FOUND."
"The first bomb was what did that damage right there. The 2nd bomb WAS FOUND and defused. The 3rd explosive that was found - that they are working on right now..."
"There were more bombs set to go off ACCORDING TO ATF OFFICIALS."
"Was is Waco? Was it the Nation of Islam? We should find out an awful lot when the bombs are taken apart."
So, we've got the Police Department, ATF, Federal Officials, and the Department of Justice ALL confirming this.
Look for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXMo3Z0qms&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Einfowars%2Ecom%2Farticles%2Fus%2Fokc%5Fbombing%5Fnew%5Frevelations%5Fspotlight%5Ffbi%5Finvolvement%2Ehtm
Seth,
Wow you pretty much nailed it!
There were NO pillars directly in front of the building, but you could clearly see the day care center from the street!
McViegh knew that and saw it.
But you try getting up in front of the New Federal Building there are pillars, gaurders, concrete sticks up out of the ground, you name it and no sign of a day care center!
Try as you might there will be NO bringing this building down!
Uncle P,
Ok so we werent joking about the tin foil hat but dealing with someone in this delicate mental state you know the slightest thing could set them off and all we need is another nutball in Oklahoma City :-)
Jenn,
You can bet if there was footage of anyone dismantling or defusing anything these people would have demnanded to see it and stormed the stations and took it.
That's why they had to bring McViegh out in a bullet proof vest when being transfered, these people werent going for a trial, this is still like the old west here they wanted to hang him that day!
That's why the trial wasnt held in Oklahoma, and why Terry Nichols isnt spending the rest of eternity here.
These people dont care about any of that crap, they want a public hanging in Oklahoma!
The hysteria that went on that day I'm shocked there werent people just suspected and hung publicly downtown!
This is a wild bunch down here!
Anon,
Of course there was a bomb squad truck, there was an EXPLOSION!!
Rumors were flying just like they were on 9-11.
I do recall them saying there were other bombs found but what you are not saying or what the links are not saying is that the information was found to NOT be acccurate!!
Where are the links that told us there was a bomb in 50 Penn Place and it was being evacuated?
Where is the link that said there was a bomg at the Myriad and it was being evacuated?
Where is the link that said there was a bomb in the Oklahoma County Jail and it was being evacuated?
Where is the link that there was a bomb at every University Campus, OU, OSU, etc.. in Oklahoma and they WERE ALL being evacuated?
How about the link saying there were bombs at Rehawks stadium?, The Oklahoma County Courthouse?, Will Rodgers World Airport?, Tinker Air Force Base?, Fort Sill in Lawton?, etc, etc, etc,????????
Hearing all this that day we thought the entire state of Oklahoma was going to explode!! But of course it all turned out NOT to be true and they sent the entire state of Oklahoma into a complete panic. We didnt even feel safe when we got home. We didnt feel safe for friggen days!! Oklahoma was shut down!
All your links did have those rumors on it, but they were ALL and I mean ALL inaccurate!!
The Nation of Islam? In Oklahoma? Are you for real?
Let me tell you what happened on 9-11 as far is Islamic people in this state went! If they even looked Islamic and they were out on the street they had better had went home!! If they were at work they had better had went home!! Islamic looking people didnt stand a chance in this state for days with these Okies!!
The Nation of Islam? In Oklahoma? Give me a break dude!!
These Okies would have killed them and I'm not fooling!!
Anon,
As a matter of fact I have a better idea, go to Oklahoma City, across the street from the Memorial you will find what's left of the Journal Records Building, which is now an archive. It holds all the information you need, it has the truck parts, news footage, pictures, everything. Maybe that is the only way to put your mind to rest!!
I don't have answers, only questions. I wonder how a man like Mcveigh could go through with all of this planning to carry out his bombing and then not put a license plate on his car. I also wonder why he did not fight or flee when a lone trooper pulled him over after killing 168 people. I also wonder why he forgot to use the hand gun concealed under his shirt(Embazoned with the motto that Booth cried when he killed Linoln)and simply allowed a single trooper to simply take it away from him. I think he was a pretty hardcore guy; to hardcore to just give up. Was he actually pulled over in force by more than he could fight? Was the government still tracking him after Waco ? Were they aware of who he was and used the "no license plate" as an excuse to pull him over ? These things have have bothered me since the day they happened. They don't add up if you take an individual as smart and hardcore as Mcveigh . I don't think he would have gone through months of planning and not stolen a license plate. He was a bronze star decorated veteran and pissed off enough to blow up a federal builing;I don't think he would have forgotten how to use his weapon. Just a thought.
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